Fred,
A while back I listened to an audio file of a March 30, 2006 interview of you by Aaron Zelman. (below is the link to the MP3 file)
http://www.jpfo.org/media-sound/TTA20060330.mp3
I thought it was a good interview and it was VERY helpful in helping to provide me good information on what to expect at and how Appleseed Shoots are run and proceed. I believe you made it pretty clear that Appleseed is NOT a gun or 2nd Amendment/pro-gun organization.
There was a link on the JFPO website to a video
http://www.jpfo.org/filegen-a-m/movieplay-2atoday-wmv-full.htm
Although the video starts off a bit off track, it provides a VERY good historic background on the history of the citizens militia, and relationship to the very first rifleman who ultimately came to form these militia’s.
I thought the video also illustrated a realistic portrayal of the thinking process, mind set, and intentions of the founders when they wrote the bill of rights. Or at least I thought. Yes, the video does have the gun and 2A element in it but the point I was trying to share when I posted this link on the forum was the history this video outlines and communicates (at least in my opinion) the reasons for the extistence, and the importance of the Appleseed Project in how its mission to educate others, train in the practice or riflemanship, and preserve this valuable history connected the dots of the militia, the rifleman, and the historic importance or why and where these things came from and how they relate to what the Appleseed Project is trying to achieve.
Anyhow, [a moderator] almost immediately deletes my post and sends me a PM. I am pretty sure you have access to all of the PM sent on the forum. You can read it.
I was a bit taken back by [the moderator's] actions and PM at first but then I thought, “I am new here and perhaps I misunderstood what is suitable to post on the forum”, and I just chalked it up to my inexperience on the forum and perhaps not yet having a good understanding of the Appleseed Forum theme message and intent.
A short while latter I noticed a couple of threads posted on the Appleseed Forum that were very political and pro-gun/2A in nature and in no way history related that a number of moderators and intructors were participating in. At first I bit my tongue and figured the thread would soon be deleted like mine. It wasn’t. The replies in this thread continued and this just smacked of a double standard and integrity issue. Shortly after I sent [the same moderator]a PM expressing my views about this, these threads were deleted.
I am sure when you review the PM I sent to [the moderator], you will have a good feel for what I was thinking.
For a number of days I looked around and read several posts on the Appleseed Forum and noted that almost exclusively, the posts are primarily from instructors and moderators. I also went back and read posts from MANY new members on the forum. I came across a VERY disturbing trend. New members to the forum would make a small number posts and then become “inactive” and silent. Just like I am now.
Fred, I joined RWVA and registered to participate on the Appleseed Forum in VERY large part because of my neighor who is an Appleseed instructor asked me to and has been after me and kids to come a register for a shoot. Steve is a good guy and I find there is NOT much we don’t agree on. He invited my daughters and I up to his place and demostrated the riflemanship training to my youngest daughter and I which we both enjoyed and we became interested and motivated to join.
My experience on this forum has been one of confusion as to just exactly what is the message and intent of Appleseed. I hear and read the philosophy and polices but the conversations and actions on the Appleseed Forum do not always support them. My perception of the new members who go silent is one of they were either banned or turned off by their experience there. I am also left wondering if I threw away my $80 to join and support the RWVA.
Hence my initial PM to you about this.
I realize drawing conclusions from exchanges read in type is never the same as when face to face. I don’t want to be prejudgemental of go off half cocked either. I plan to take my wife and 3 daughters to an Appleseed shoot in the near future. Perhaps a hands on experience and an open mind may produce much better results with respect to our understanding of the Appleseed project.
Randy
Randy: Get ready for some blunt talk, because you complain about your post being deleted, and then seeing another thread just like - and when you point it out to the moderator, it gets deleted (actually, in both cases, I bet it was ‘locked’ rather than ‘deleted’) - if so, what’s your complaint?
Then, you notice - surprise, suprise! - most posts are made by ‘instructors and moderators’ - who by definition are the most active people on this ‘working site’ - this site is not for tourists or talkers; it’s a site for those ‘laboring in the vineyard.’ No wonder you won’t find many non-workers posting - in this outfit to be a poster is to be a worker - and to be a worker IS to be an instructor…
Now, for the rest of it: First let me say that I do not have access to any PMs on the site except my own.
Second, let me suggest you are experiencing the “first pangs” of being on a very unusual site - a site that we call a “working site”. Many people first signing on to the site ignore that - or don’t understand that, Appleseed being about saving our country, we tend to focus on doing things, rather than talking about them.
Third, which means posts that get too far from “the mission” have a high probability of being locked. SOMSOM is something you hear and see frequently on our site - Stay on Message, Stay on Mission - don’t get distracted, don’t spin your wheels on things that don’t advance the program, things that don’t matter to the Mission.
Fourth, we call such wheel-spinning “iceberg counting” - like being on the deck of the sinking Titanic, and counting the icebergs on the horizon - while the ship is sinking. What do you do? Well, most of us would say “Quit worrying about those icebergs and let’s get to bailing!” Most people today have trouble with that concept of actually doing something to save the ship.
Fifth, you’ll also see on our site “Check your ego at the door.” That means you put The Mission first, and if something irritates you, doesn’t happen like you think it should happen, you simply ignore it - The Mission comes first.
There’s no doubt this is not popular with modern Americans, most of whom are ego-driven.
The ego-driven “it’s all about me” turns them into “it’s my way or the highway” - and most of them move on to other places on the internet where they don’t have to be bothered with any “Mission” and can strut their egoes.
Sixth, I don’t worry about it, being entirely focused on The Mission. If you come on the site, and are willing to check your ego at the door, and buckle down and get to working to accomplish The Mission - which is to save the sinking ship - then the welcome mat is out. Otherwise, it’s not.
Seventh, I might not personally have locked your thread. My tolerance for a little variation from the path is slightly higher than others. Yet I respect the dedication of other volunteer Americans working hard on this site, and would not criticize a slight over-indulgence on their part in snipping off non-productive shoots that spring up on the site.
Eighth, active workers on our site are motivated by one thing - the need to stop the ship from sinking. Ideally, that, and nothing else. Locking a thread is not done for reasons of ego, but simply to keep the website and the people on it on course to accomplishing the Great Task before us. I would be disappointed if people let something like a locked thread disjoint their noses - it’s more a learning opportunity than a reason to get insulted - and you would be too, if you take the Mission seriously. Who cares about a locked thread, when the nation is sinking - and we can save it?
Randy, when you get down to it, your evident posture is to equate locking your posts to the Mission. In the 18th century, a man wrote some poetry about “Raping the Lock” - wherein snipping a lock of hair was related as an epic event in the history of mankind - tongue in cheek. I don’t claim you’re elevating locking your post THAT high, but to reconsider your support for RWVA and its Mission because of a minor event in the history of mankind like locking your posts is not getting too far from it.
Hmmm, let’s see: “locking my post, so now I’m rethinking whether I want to save the sinking ship? Gee, that’s a tough one. Let me think it over…”
Ninth, I don’t worry about newbies getting “turned off” - it’s part of the educational process which turns into a screening process. Nothing disturbing about it at all. It’s entirely normal and natural. Those who “get the drift” will make it thru the screening and become productive members. Those thousands who don’t, who insist on staying modern Americans, who put ego before saving their country, the ones who don’t even amount to Sunshine Patriots and Summer Soldiers? Sorry, you’ll think I’m kinda “cold” here, but there’s so many hundreds of millions of them in this country it’s a pleasure to have a site where they are not allowed. (You are prob familiar with the complaint about escaping citydwellers who move to the country, looking for relief from heavy taxation and overbearing government - and then immediately vote for county zoning, and increasing taxes? In other words, they bring the problems they’re trying to escape, with them? In other words, there’s no escape for them, because THEY ARE THE PROBLEM. If we didn’t keep those people off our site, we’d soon be just another internet site of talkers and complainers, and find it very hard to get any work done…)
As you will find, if you survive your “baptism” and become one of the “believers”.
Tenth, sure, we hope that all of the “new people” on our site make it thru the screening process. But it is a dead certainty that most of them won’t. A simple fact of life. A symptom of what ails this country today. The entire reason and rationale of Project Appleseed. I hope you will be one of the exceptions. That you will understand that what seems to you to be “exclusivity” on our site is a simple priority - not only elevating “workers in the Cause” to the front ranks, but of elevating “action” over “talk”, and Mission over Ego.
Eleventh, we are all volunteers on this site. Every last one of us. We welcome new volunteers willing to put their shoulders to the wheel. If you are one of them, you are indeed welcome on the site, and we’ll be grateful for the addition of your shoulder to the task.
Twelfth, personally, having been doing this for years - after decades of being the “iceberg-counting do-nothing complainer” - I’m pretty sensitive about the issue. And pretty blunt about both the problem and the solution. The recent election was not an issue for me - “elections are like weather, whereas Appleseed is about climate” is a statement seen more than once on our site.
It doesn’t matter what the question/threat/problem is, Appleseed is the solution.
And let me tell you why: It’s because the founders told us liberty is dependent on an alert, educated American people - and Appleseed is a program designed to wake them up and educate them about their heritage and history, so that liberty will be guarded by people who appreciate it and are willing to protect it.
Get the American people to that level of energy, and our problems are pretty much over. The ship is no longer sinking. The nation is no longer in danger. The threat of terrorism is nothing compared to the internal imploding the nation is currently undergoing, as it spins out of control, faster and faster.
Guess you can begin to understand why we appear so single-minded. (At least, I hope you do.)
There’s lots about this program that irritates me. People being top on the list. Yet I put up with it because my irritation doesn’t matter - it’s accomplishing the Mission that matters.
I put up with the bad because there’s so much “Good” in this program. Note the capital “G”. George Washington said it well, when he said, “Let us rely upon the Goodness of the cause…”
When you go to an Appleseed, I think you will be surprised. Shaken even, maybe. Awakened to a new level of awareness of what we in this country are pissing away, every day.
I know at Appleseed you will discover fellow Americans like yourself and more, fellow Americans who are the cream of the crop - it’s the “cream” that are motivated to not see the traditions of this country die.
You’ll be surprised, I think, to find people at Appleseed are instant friends, the kind of people you don’t see in everyday life - but wish you did.
I hope you will be motivated to come on board, and help us make this country what it once was, a land that treasures liberty.
And, like me, put up with the “slings and arrows” of any imperfect human endeavor in order to advance a noble Cause…
The nice thing about this program is it allows you to reach inside yourself and see what you are made of. And more - as in the process you’ll find you are a better person than you thought, as you “step up to the plate” to show your fellow Americans what they should “be about”. Hint: It’s not plasma TVs…
Show this PM to your neighbor Steve, the RWVA instructor. I don’t think he’ll have any problems with it. And if he does, I bet he’ll say to you, “The Mission comes first - even if I don’t agree with some parts.”
Nothing is perfect. Nobody is perfect. We all do the best we can.
If you believe the ship is sinking, simple logic tells you, if you don’t want you or your kids to wind up in the water (I bet it’s cold…), to get bailin’!
And when you do, you’ll find a new reduced tolerance on your part for those still relaxing in the deck chairs.
Meaning you’ll come to the belief that they need to be woken up, hauled out of the deck chairs, and put to bailing, too.
That, my friend, is what Appleseed is about. And doing…
Thank you for a very productive PM. It clarified some of my own thoughts about the program.
Like you (I hope), I am continually learning. This program has improved me (as a person) tremendously.
Come to an Appleseed. Then keep at it, until you become a Rifleman. Then help us and your country by becoming an Instructor.
I think you’ll find a new Mission in life…